I've noted previously on this blog an editorial that the U.S. Catholic weekly National Catholic Reporter published right before Christmas, which speaks about the legislation now being considered in Uganda which would make being gay a capital crime, in some cases.In response to that editorial, a discussion has developed between another reader and me. In my view, this discussion is enlightening as a snapshot of a difficult cross-cultural discussion about human rights in our world today--a discussion that has been (I believe) made much more difficult by the attempts of the religious right of the U.S. to export American-style culture wars to developing nations. The ultimate outcome of that attempt by members of the American religious right to export American-style culture wars to developing nations has been, it seems to me, to engender in some nations a viewpoint that gay human beings do not have and should not have human rights.
As the discussion has unfolded, it has come to center explicitly on the question of whether human rights are universal. As my posting earlier today notes, the ethics and integrity minister of Uganda has recently stated, "Homosexuals can forget about human rights."
This seems to be the position espoused by my dialogue partner at NCR, Maazi. As the following excerpts from our dialogue indicate, in Maazi's view, "[E]very society decides what is good for it . . .," and it is clear to me that extends, in Maazi's thinking, to the right of a society to make being gay a capital crime (since homosexuals can forget about human rights).
I offer the following (edited) conversation as an example of what seems to me an important (and failed) cross-cultural discussion of a very important human rights issue of our time, in which people of faith have been playing a key role, for weal or for woe. It will be interesting to see what historians make of discussions like this in the future.
Maazi: You [NCR editorialists] shamelessly repeat lies circulated by homosexual obsessed western media which insist on extending US Cultural Wars to Uganda by linking the proposed law with conservative American pastors . . . . But never you think that we (Africans) are stupid enough to accept that ongoing attempts to end injustice against non-whites in Europe and America is equivalent to the vicious campaign by extremely rich Euro-American groups to re-model Africa as an exotic destination for gay tourists to go and promote sexual depravity. Ugandan people has right to react against NGOs that are actively seeking to recruit vulnerable youngsters to their "Gay Movement" via promotional leaflets with email addresses and phone numbers in public places urging them to get in touch "for awareness campaigns" . . . . Contrary to Western media propaganda, Gays who keep their heads down and do their stuff privately will be left alone, but those Gays who insist on having sex with Ugandan minors or distributing promotional leaflets (as they probably do in San Francisco) will have the full force of the proposed Ugandan law on them. No amount of intimidation from The West will prevent the preservation of our cultural values.
Bill: Maazi, the amount of dangerous misinformation in your response--and, yes, honestly the level of misguided hate you bear towards some of God's creatures--concerns me tremendously.
Rev. Rick Warren has made MANY trips to Africa. He has gone back and forth to that continent for some years now. And this doesn't even touch on the well-documented (and easily proven) repeated visits of many other U.S. right-wing evangelicals to Uganda and other African countries, and the inflammatory anti-gay statements some of these religious representatives have made on their repeated visits to Uganda and other African nations. It doesn't touch, either, on their meeting with Ugandan political leaders responsible for introducing the legislation now under consideration.
I encourage you to visit the Box Turtle Bulletin website, which has done a thorough, careful job of documenting these points for some time now . . . . When I hear your comments about rich Western gays who want to turn Africa into a gay playground and recruit African children, I cannot help thinking of the lies that were spread for centuries in many Christian nations about the Jewish people--lies with absolutely no foundation in fact, which ended up causing the murder of millions of people simply because they happened to be Jewish.
Lies have consequences. Misrepresenting people made in God's image in malicious ways that place those people in danger is surely not pleasing to God . . . . Please think about what you are doing, what you are promoting, the doors to violence you are opening, when you spread such malicious lies . . . .
Maazi: Why don't you use some of your gay propagandist skills to press for its decriminalization as many of us (Africans) feel that polygamy is a human right. Why should a consensual relationship between a man and two women be a criminal offence? Using your propagandist skills, why not press for decriminalization of incest in The Federal Repubulic of Germany?
My point, Mr Lindsey is that every society decides what is good for it . . . . We Africans do not feel that homosexuality is good for the survival of our communal society which is very different from your highly individualistic, "mind-your-own business" society. So we are passing laws to preserve our society and guard against Western-style family fragmentation.
Finally, it is a great insult for you to claim that you know my continent more than I do. Christianity opposed many of our old cultural ways, but it did not succeed in getting rid of many of them. That is why even in predominantly Christian African nations, polygamy is legal and is practised by many baptized christians in spite of strong objections from influencial local Church leaders. If homosexuality was part and parcel of our culture for centuries, we will not foolishly claim that it was a Western-import. But we know that it is indeed a Western-import since "Gayism" started to emerge as internet became increasing affordable and as the number of Western (Trojan Horse) NGOs arriving "to help the poor Africans" increased in geometric progression . . . . Another thing: I politely refuse your suggestion that I should examine internet articles published by Euro-American Gay Propagandist Websites.
Bill: Maazi, thank you for your reply. As my previous posting says, I lament that, for such a significant discussion--in which the lives of human beings hang in the balance--it is a shame that those of us who feel passionate about the issues involved cannot discuss these issues face to face.
I won't answer your comments about polygamy and incest, which are, of course, red herrings and do not deal with the substance of my comment. And I am sorry you choose to view me as a gay propagandist rather than a fellow Catholic seeking light about an important moral issue.
You say, "My point, Mr Lindsey is that every society decides what is good for it." And I disagree, profoundly. I may live in the West and not fully understand your culture, and you may live in Africa and view my culture as morally bankrupt.
Nonetheless, certain moral values transcend cultural boundary lines. A majority of nations of the world endorsed a declaration of human rights in the late 1940s. Those rights transcend cultural boundaries.
Putting innocent people to death simply because of who they are is a barbaric action, whether it occurs in the U.S. (where I would and do oppose such a step as strongly as I do in your country) or in Uganda . . . . We live in a human community that must be bound together by certain standards of human decency if it expects to be humane, Maazi. Human rights are universal. Your statement that "every society decides what is good for it" is horrendous. It could be used to support the murder of millions of people simply because they happen to be Jewish. Or gypsies. Or mentally or physically handicapped.
Or gay or lesbian. And a society that behaves that way is barbaric.
